Who is on the line?

How does a meeting with Pope Francis begin?  Ask the editor of Rome’s “La Republica” Eugenio Scalfari, an agnostic.

“In a shaky voice, my secretary says: ‘The Pope is   on the line. I'll put him through.’ ‘Hello, this is Pope Francis,’ he says. I am shocked. ‘I did not expect you to call me.’ ‘Why so surprised? You wrote asking to meet me in person. Would Tuesday 3 pm suit you?’’’

Fine.  I don't know how to end this call. “Can I embrace you by phone?” “Of course, a hug from me too. Then we will do it in person, goodbye.”

So, here I am, at his small bare quarters in Santa Marta, a Vatican hostel. There’s a small table with five chairs with a painting on the wall. The Pope comes in, shakes my hand and we begin:

“Some colleagues say you’ll try to convert me,” Francis smiles. “Proselytism is solemn nonsense. We need to get to know each other, listen to each other, because new ideas are born and we see new needs.   Roads come closer together and move apart.  But the important thing is they lead towards the Good.”

Everyone has his own idea of good and evil and must follow the good, as he conceives it. That’d make the world a better place. “Agape” is love of others, as our Lord preached. That leavening serves the common good

Other excerpts from the “La Republica” interview: “The most serious evils are youth, unemployment and loneliness of the old. The old need care and companionship; the young need work and hope. But (they) have neither one nor the other.

“And the problem is they don't even look for them anymore. They’ve been crushed by the present. Without a memory of the past and without the desire to the future... Can we go on like this?

“Heads of the Church have often been narcissists, flattered by courtiers. Narcissism is excessive love for oneself. It damages souls and society. This is actually a kind of mental disorder in people who have a lot of power. Often bosses are narcissists.    

“The court is the leprosy of the papacy.” There are sometimes courtiers in the curia, but the curia is another thing.  Rather, it is what, in an army, is called the quartermaster. It services the Holy See. But it is Vatican-centric looks after interests that still, for the most part, are temporal. This view neglects the world around us.... I'll do everything I can to change it.

“The Church should go back to being a community of God's people, and priests, who are at the service of the people of God.  The Holy See has its own function, important but at the service of the Church. 

“A non-believer and an anti-clerical person are different things. When I meet a clericalist, I suddenly become anti-clerical. Clericalism should not have anything to do with Christianity. St. Paul, who was the first to speak to the Gentiles, the pagans, to believers in other religions, was the first to teach us that Jesus said, ‘Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself’. But selfishness has increased and love towards others declined.  So the goal we have in common is at least to equalize intensity of these two loves.

“Love for temporal power is still strong within Vatican. The institutional church structure dominates the poor, missionary church. Often the Church as an institution has been dominated by temporalism. And many members and senior Catholic leaders still feel this way.

“In this area you cannot perform miracles.  Even St. Francis of Assisi held long negotiations with the hierarchy to get rules of his order recognized, but with profound changes I do not have the strength and his holiness of St. Francis.

“But I am Bishop of Rome and Pope. We appointed a group of eight cardinals to be my advisers. Not courtiers but wise people who share my feelings. This is the beginning of a Church with an organization that is not just top-down but also horizontal. When the late Cardinal Martini talked about focusing on the councils and synods, he knew how long and difficult it would be to go in that direction. Gently, but firmly and tenaciously

“Christians have always have been a minority. A minority can be a strength. We have to be a leavening of life and love. And leavening can cause growth. We must be open to the future.

“Vatican II, inspired by Pope Paul VI and John XXIII sought to be open to modern culture. The Council Fathers knew that religious ecumenism and dialogue with non-believers were essential. But afterwards very little was done in that direction. I want to do something.

“Politics is the most important of the civil activities. They [political institutions] are secular and operate in independent spheres. All my predecessors said the same thing, albeit with different accents. Catholics involved in politics carry the values of their religion within them, but have the mature awareness and expertise to implement them. The Church will never go beyond its task of expressing and disseminating its values, at least as long as I'm here.”

“I tell the Pope there is no need to accompany me to the door. He waves that aside and adds, ‘We will discuss the role of women in the Church. Remember that the Church (la chiesa) is feminre. Give your family my blessings and ask them to pray for me.’

“We shake hands and he stands with his two fingers raised in a blessing. I wave to him from the window. This is Pope Francis. If the Church becomes like him and becomes what he wants it to be, it will be an epochal change.”